Buckle up Alphanauts – We’re taking spaceship Alpha into the world of connections, which is where it gets real. The Open Focus session starts at 24:24.8
We live a connected life, and while deep joy can come from those connections, so can deep distress. How can open focus and alpha synchrony help us? That’s what we explore in this podcast. Effortlessness, space, and embodiment are the hallmarks of Open Focus, and centering space in, around and throughout our connections will shift us into alpha which frees our brain to make connections. All the connections: That’s 100 billion neurons with more than 100 trillion neuronal handshakes. Who knows what you’ll come up with. Let’s find out: The podcast episode is here:
The transcript starts here:
0:00:00.0 Kat: In the immortal words of Ferris Bueller.
0:00:03.1 Ferris Bueller: Life moves pretty fast. You don’t stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.
0:00:10.2 Kat: But is there an art or a science to stopping and looking around once in a while?
0:00:16.3 Liz: I’m Liz.
0:00:17.4 Kat: And I’m Kat. And this is Beyond Resilience.
[music]
0:00:22.5 Kat: When Liz and I met during the COVID-19 pandemic, we discovered that we shared a passion for exploring accessible ways of experiencing and incorporating trance into our daily lives. In particular, we were interested in how different trance inducing practices might promote physical, mental, and emotional healing, enhance creativity and inspire liberation. So in the first season of Beyond Resilience, we explore Open Focus, a practice developed by Les Fehmi that helps us retrain our brains to access all the different types of attention available. Please join us as we explore Open Focus and learn about the benefits of daily practice.
0:01:05.6 Liz: Alright, here we are, Kat, again, together again.
0:01:08.7 Kat: Hi, Liz. Together again.
0:01:11.8 Liz: [laughter] That’s us.
0:01:13.9 Kat: [laughter] So we ended last week’s episode talking about connection and amplifying connection using Open Focus to amplify connection. And so this is something you can use in all kinds of interpersonal sort of interactions, not only like in your relation, like your relationship. Right. If you’re in…
0:01:42.0 Liz: Yeah. Capital R Yeah.
0:01:43.1 Kat: And you’re, if you’re in some deep shit, or [laughter], like I was mentioning, you know, I interview a lot of people and sometimes they’re muckety-mucks. Sometimes they’re really important people and so I have to like, go in and be professional and not be my weirdo self and they’ve gotta trust me, right. That like ’cause I’m interviewing them and I wanna get them to open up and talk about things and act natural. So…
0:02:18.4 Liz: Wait, did you just say act natural? [laughter]
0:02:20.5 Kat: Yeah. I want them to act natural.
0:02:23.6 Liz: That’s what we do. [laughter]
0:02:26.7 Kat: Exactly. Share yourself. Yeah. Because, you know, like I’m not necessarily an interviewer who like, is like, here’s a question, what is your answer? And then when I create the interviews, it’s just like Q&A. Right. I’m like very much like we’re having conversation and then I will find the story in there. And, so it, it’s, it can be sometimes you have people who are not as skilled and eloquent as my good friend Liz. And they’re monosyllabic and they don’t wanna share about themselves. And so like, feeling confident or feeling that kind of like easygoing like setting to kind of put them at ease. That’s something, that sometimes I can struggle with. [laughter]
0:03:26.0 Liz: Right.
0:03:30.8 Kat: So, yeah.
0:03:33.9 Liz: When someone does that, they’re just like Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. It’s like, do you kind of panic. I mean.
0:03:41.0 Kat: Well, I mean, I try and open, ask as many open-ended questions as possible, but sometimes people will not, they still will be like very… They’re… If they were filling out a web form, [chuckle] it would be a short answer, 100 character maximum field. Whereas I’m looking for the like, you know what, multi-line…
0:04:07.4 Liz: That’s right.
0:04:08.6 Kat: No maximum…
0:04:08.9 Liz: Unlimited.
0:04:09.7 Kat: Just keep it going.
0:04:10.7 Liz: That’s right.
0:04:12.2 Kat: Yeah. And it’s funny, when you interview somebody who does, is comfortable either talking about the topic or talking about themselves, they always will apologize at some point in the interview. They’ll say, “I’m so sorry, I’m talking too much, are my answers too long da da da.” And I’m like, “No, this is great.” Because often they’ll give you answers before you ask the questions, so that’s nice.
0:04:35.1 Kat: But not once has anyone who is monosyllabic said, “I’m sorry, I’m not really giving you a lot.” No, not once [laughter] They don’t know that somebody… They’re not aware enough that they’re not, you know, but people aren’t very good at being interviewed, I think. They don’t get, people don’t get interviewed like that very often, so…
0:04:56.3 Liz: No, no.
0:04:57.3 Kat: I think, if you’re like famous or a celebrity or used to speaking in public, then you’re like, and so when I interview people who are like that, who are like heads of nonprofits and are using used to like going out and selling themselves, then they, but when it’s like, I’m an alumni, I’m a psychology graduate student, like they’re [laughter] You know, so that’s Yeah.
0:05:23.2 Liz: Yeah. As they’re talking, I’m seeing space. Right. It’s like, am I taking up too much space? I’m I, there’s too much space. I don’t wanna step out into it and feel vulnerable and…
0:05:34.3 Kat: Yeah. So that’s part of it, right? In the sort of stranger sort of reducing the stranger danger, interpersonal stress. But then we have the relationship stuff, like you’re living with somebody, whether it’s a family member or your partner or a kid, and it’s like…
0:06:01.4 Liz: Or a cat or a dog.
0:06:03.5 Kat: Oh my gosh. My dog Van.
0:06:04.6 Liz: Yeah. I mean.
0:06:05.7 Kat: Up in my grill continuously.
0:06:07.8 Liz: Right? Exactly. Exactly.
0:06:10.9 Kat: It’s like, it’s 90 degrees and you have a fur coat on. I don’t understand why you are like stuck, like Velcro to me. [laughter] Aren’t you hot? ’cause you’re panting and it seems like maybe we need some space here. [laughter],
0:06:25.0 Liz: Little ventilation, [laughter] little airflow would be really good.
0:06:29.1 Kat: Yeah. So it’s…
0:06:31.2 Liz: Anything that you might react to, right? Anything that might push a button or cause you to need to intervene when you don’t want to, or push you past a reluctance to engage as a monosyllabic person on the other side of an interview. Might be, it’s, we all bring this, 360 degree experience to the interaction. And yeah. So what about in an intimate relationship? Let’s call them an intimate relationship because living together is intimate, whether it’s a roommate, or a partner, or whatever. Kat what about that? What about when that space gets cluttered or difficult, or is it just loving and flowing?
0:07:19.3 Kat: Yeah. Or like the, you know, we talked about in the last episode, the art of knowing when not to say anything.
0:07:27.4 Liz: Yes, we did. Silence.
0:07:28.5 Kat: So giving yourself, like, giving yourself the space to take a beat to go, you know what? I mean, I am, I, for year I was always, I’m just like, you know, yeah. I can skewer you. I can be sassy. You wanna come at me? All right. Here, I’ll just dress you down. And like, my partner now was like, you can have like just the most like, scathing tongue, and I’m like, really. I just feel like I’m speaking the truth.
0:07:56.4 Liz: Me? Yeah.
0:07:57.0 Kat: [laughter] You know?
0:07:58.3 Liz: Right. Exactly.
0:08:01.2 Kat: And they’re like, no, it’s, it can be devastating. And it actually made me go, okay, I gotta take a step back because I’m not trying to be devastating. I’m not trying to damage the relationship. I’m trying to communicate something here. And obviously the way I’m doing it isn’t being received well. So then it’s like, do you have to say everything? Is that space is there, should we leave space, for the sound of silence right now.
0:08:29.6 Liz: That’s right. The silence is golden thing. I think that Al-Anon has some really a couple of good acronyms for this, which is, you know, wait, why am I still talk? Why am I talking, why am I talking. Why am I, why am I talking? And then waste for when you can’t answer that question yet. You’re still talking. Keep talking. Why am I still talking? And so every once in a while, this, the more I play with those acronyms, the more I’m like, why am I talking?
0:08:57.7 Kat: Yeah.
0:08:58.7 Liz: What would happen if I stopped talking and allowed space for the other person? Which I, you know, kind of is the art of interviewing too, right? The pause. How do you pause and let someone have airtime as they say, airtime in other word for space airspace. Space time, space time continuum. Okay. No, narrowing back into our topic.
0:09:20.0 Kat: Yeah. And I think…
0:09:21.8 Liz: And out of the space continuum.
0:09:23.9 Kat: [laughter] That is our topic. I thought Liz [laughter] everything under the sun.
0:09:32.2 Liz: That’s right.
0:09:33.3 Kat: So yeah. So I think that like that, being in moments of strife in an intimate relationship or stress in some type of a professional kind of atmosphere. I can think about, like the years I did customer service and really having to learn how to just like check myself, right? Because somebody’s just being out of pocket and they are just going hard and they’re ridiculous. And you could very easily just like set them straight, but then you’ve lost this customer and it’s like, okay, what is really going on here? What’s the real narrative here? Because it’s not actually what you’re talking about. Right. And I think that’s actually really true in intimate relationships as well. So having, you know, but then I look at it and go, like, “If I’m in the mix right and somebody’s coming at me, I’m not gonna be like, oh, imagine this.” I’m not gonna be able to do that. Right. So [laughter] like, I would love to be able to, but how can I sort of bring it, and I know we’ve talked about that. Like these sessions are kind of the blueprint to practice that the more you do it, the more you could just kind of like slip in and out, you can touch in versus doing like, yeah.
0:11:09.0 Liz: Right. You can’t say, excuse me, [laughter], I need 20 minutes can I just have 20 minutes? I just need, yeah. The more you practice this, the more available it becomes. And silence is a kind of space, right? Silence is just another word for it’s hearing space, essentially. It’s sound space, it’s the space between notes is what makes music, otherwise it’s noise. And that’s true in conversations too. It’s the silence and the thoughtful silence. So silence has its uses in conversations, especially heated ones where there’s judgment and blame or hurt or, feeling misunderstood. There’s some obstruction, imagined obstruction often or actual obstruction. But so many of them aren’t. So many of them are where our mind goes and the things we add to the conversation and bring from our own personal experience, to that conversation. So if we can remember that there are certain ways of thinking about space, silence is one of them.
0:12:17.1 Liz: Periodicity is one of them. So the space between events, the time that elapses between events, that’s useful for a train of thought that won’t stop even a train of thought, a thought comes into being and it goes out of being, and then there’s a tiny space between the next thought. Even if it’s a repetitive thought, it’s not constant. Even the brain needs to inhale, needs to pause to restart. So looking for, and if you can’t find it, imagining that silence, that space between, the space within you can always add space in your imagination. So in the space between people, the way to think about that in language or the way to language it is, distance. So, if you can’t, if the space between you is kind of too threatening because it’s like, “Oh, space doesn’t have boundaries.
0:13:21.2 Liz: Oh, oh, oh, that’s too much.” You can think about the distance between you. And as soon as you imagine the distance between you, you realize that you can bring Open Focus to relationships at any distance. So we’re in different states, Kat. So, I can imagine the distance between where I’m sitting in the image of you on the screen, that’s one way to do it. But I can also imagine the distance, the actual distance between us, which I can only imagine right? [laughter] I have to use my imagination for that. And that’s a way to add space to my experience. So when you’re in the moment and someone is coming at you, pausing, allowing silence, and if challenge saying, I’m thinking, or I just need a minute, asking someone to repeat something, paraphrasing something back to them, slowing down the tempo to something that is more manageable and less activating can be helpful.
0:14:26.3 Liz: And all the tools of active listening. You mentioned using Open Focus… Sorry, open-ended questions in an interview. That’s a way of doing that. It allows people to think, they have to think to respond to an open ended question more than they do to a closed. You know, if it’s a yes or no question, that’s not hard. Yes. No. Yes. But if it’s, what do you think about this? How do you feel about that? What do you do next? How does that happen? That’s all much more expansive, which is another word for space. So allowing time, allowing silence, imagining the distance between you and someone else gives you a way either in the moment or as a practice, which we’ll do in a moment. That’s a way to add space to your experience of them. So even if you’re interviewing someone, if you just say, can I, you don’t have to construct it, right? You just say, “can I imagine this space between me and this person?” Boom. Your brain shifts in that moment, your brain shifts. So Open Focus is not effortful. It doesn’t take 20 minutes. So you practice it so that you get less and less effortful about it. You understand that it is less, the less effort, the better, the more imagination the better.
0:15:49.4 Kat: ‘Cause I remember you telling me, you know, forever ago about how Les Fehmi would like check he had some kind of an alarm or something like that. And I was like, that seems like a lot of work. And you were like, no. He was just like, am I still doing this? And if so, like how am I paying attention? That’s what the check was. Not like I got, I’m out of Open Focus, I gotta get back in. [laughter] I gotta work harder at not working hard, you know?
0:16:15.8 Liz: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Put a lot of effort into effortlessness.
0:16:21.7 Kat: Exactly. So I think like even, you know, and it is good time, a good time to, like, if you are in a very heated situation to say, “Hey, we need to stop and take a moment, and then this is a, this could be a very effective tool to kind of get to reset yourself so that that space that you’ve made, you said, hey, I need 20 minutes, or Hey, let’s talk about this tomorrow.”
0:16:50.9 Liz: Exactly.
0:16:51.0 Kat: You’re not sitting and ruminating. Right. You are like, yeah, you’re doing something kind of like to kind of switch the, your perspective on the situation a little bit.
0:17:03.1 Liz: Right. Always helpful it assuming you come back. The other thing that this is useful for is you mentioned, you alluded to work situations where you have a difficult coworker, a boss that is in your way, that all of that kind of stuff, that you get a new boss that’s doing things differently and you don’t feel seen or heard at work. And you are in a one down position to someone in the hierarchy which is itself stressful. So without changing anything except for the way you imagine. The fact that you are imagining the distance between you and thereby adding space, it frees up your brain to think new thoughts without any of the, rumination and analysis we tend to do. Well I have this and he did this and that. You don’t need to psychoanalyze people in your life.
0:17:56.2 Liz: In fact, it’s a complete waste of time. You just need to add space. And then your brain, which is this, the whole default mode network gets a lot of attention right now. ‘Cause it’s doing the work. It’s doing the work. All of the things that we wanna do and rumination and all, all the analytical stuff we’re doing, we’re performing gets the credit. But it’s the default mode network that’s doing the work. It’s putting all the things together and coming up with new ideas thrown out there and, throwing it out there for us to try. And the less effort you put in, the more that can happen because you’re not demanding that the brain uses resources to be in fight or flight.
0:18:45.0 Liz: So that’s the value of space. It makes your brain work better to come up with new ideas, new concepts about what’s actually happening. So just imagining distance between you and a troublesome person, someone you’re full of judgment and blame for is incredibly helpful. You don’t have to do it. You don’t have to argue with yourself about the blame or you don’t have to do anything. All you do is add space to what is, and that is the Open Focus practice. It’s effortless. Just space, distance between.
0:19:22.9 Kat: It’s funny ’cause my partner has this nemesis. There’s this makerspace where we go, and there’s somebody there that just drives him up the wall. And the other day he says I would rather die.
0:19:40.3 Liz: Oh my God.
0:19:41.4 Kat: Than like, interact with this person. If this person was like, the only way home is to get in a car with me, I would rather die than do that.
0:19:51.3 Liz: Oh my God. That’s traumatic.
0:19:52.4 Kat: And I said that seems a little extreme. I feel like maybe there’s something in there for you to think about. And they got all… What are you trying to doctor Phil me?
0:20:06.3 Liz: Yeah. That’s a good one.
0:20:09.3 Kat: And I said, well, and he was like, that’s so unlike you. They’re like, you’re just… That’s not you just… You don’t do that. And I was like, it just seemed really off base. If I had such an extreme reaction to somebody that like, there’s that common thing of what really drives you crazy about somebody is often something that drives you crazy about yourself. And you’re seeing that mirrored back at you and you’re like. So I said, I would just be thinking about that, what is that? What drives me so crazy? And so the next day they said, oh, well it’s just they’re so self satisfied and they know everything and they’re always trying to explain everything to me and they’re going off on this whole spiel. And then they stop, and I was like, yeah, that sounds really annoying. They’re like, well, yeah, it is really annoying. And I was like, yeah, it’s really annoying. For me, I hope you can understand, for me as a woman.
[laughter]
0:21:10.7 Kat: That’s like 98% of my interactions with men. Especially in the tech industry, I spent decades having men teach me how to do my job that had less skill, had less background, had less… But they had an opinion and they were sure of it. I said, and if I responded with like… I would rather die [laughter] I wouldn’t have been able to get anywhere, so you have to… And is that good? No. Obviously that’s horrible. It’s horrible that people have to put up with that kind of thing. But then on the other side of it it’s like, what is that person doing though? I said, I got to a point where I realized this was all insecurity. That was all it was. So once I saw that the men were treating me this way ’cause they were insecure around me, then I just, it didn’t bother me anymore. I just was cute.
0:22:09.5 Liz: It didn’t have anything to do with you.
0:22:10.4 Kat: It was, yeah, exactly. It was just like, I’m making this, I don’t have to carry. This is their shit to carry. And that was part of… That’s kind of making that space to see like, oh, this isn’t about me. This is somebody else’s. They’re dealing with other things and I just happen to be the target. You know?
0:22:29.1 Liz: And if you’re taking it personally, then it hurts. It affects you.
0:22:32.1 Kat: If you’re too up close to it. So kind of, yeah, making that space to just let people be their weird, flawed selves and obviously there’s abusive situations where you need to get out of, but just the day-to-day flawed humans is like, okay, I’m just gonna let you be you, and I’m gonna make space here, so that I’m not gonna get the… There’s not gonna be as much collateral damage. [laughter]
0:23:03.6 Liz: Exactly. Yeah. And when I need to speak up, I will. And yeah. But yeah, absolutely. That’s… It’s good insight, Kat. So what else…
0:23:16.6 Kat: Did I Doctor Phil you, Liz?
0:23:19.4 Liz: No. No, because… [laughter] I don’t know. Did you? How’s that working for you?
0:23:28.7 Kat: Oh, isn’t that his famous line?
0:23:30.1 Liz: It is, yeah.
0:23:31.1 Kat: Oh my gosh. It seems to be going well so far.
0:23:37.1 Liz: Yeah. So far so good, man. So the key to all of it though, is that distance, that space. So let’s go.
0:23:43.4 Kat: Sounds good.
0:23:45.8 Liz: Give it a whirl. And this one this can be shorter than a lot of these other Open Focus sessions are, ’cause if we stay too long in this, we can start to, it’s really tricky not to get into that analysis and thinking that you need to do something. So we’re kind of gonna be in and out on this one a bit. And that’s how you practice it is just as lightly as possible, imagining the distance between you and someone else and adding space and it’s like, so… And we’re gonna be in and out of this one.
0:24:23.5 Kat: Okay. All right.
0:24:24.8 Liz: Okay. So starting as we always do, our feet flat on the floor, eyes closed, sitting upright. I like to also have my hands free ’cause we use the thumb and index fingers a lot, because they’re so directly wired into the brain, it helps us get into space and Open Focus more quickly and that is where we’ll start today. Can you imagine the space inside your thumbs and index fingers? And is it possible to, without any effort, imagine that space inside your index fingers and thumbs even more sensitively than you just did, just by imagining it, imagining that you’re having a more sensitive experience of the space inside your index fingers and thumbs, and using that felt sense of space in your thumbs and index fingers. Can you extend it to your other fingers on both hands, experiencing in your imagination space in your middle fingers, and ring fingers and little fingers? And once again, can you imagine feeling the space in all of your fingers and thumbs even more sensitively and intimately than you just did, all without effort, just making it up? And can you imagine that sense of space, filling your palms, your arms, your entire arm, all the way up to your shoulder, your neck, and your head full of space, effortlessly imagining the space in your head and neck, shoulders, arms, hands and fingers.
0:27:33.5 Liz: Can you imagine that space, that same sensitive sense of space, filling your entire torso, all the way down to your hip joints, your thighs, your knees, going all the way down your legs, that sense of space, filling your body and your limbs, your lower legs and ankles, feet and toes full of space. And is it possible to imagine the space, filling your entire body just a little more sensitively and intimately with absolutely no effort? Can you imagine this other person, whether it’s someone you’ve not met and will be interviewing, whether it’s someone you know well and love, whether it’s someone who is a work associate. You may or may not like maybe having a difficult time with or a good time with that you’d like to enhance, maybe your partner you’d like to enhance your experience and connection with them. Can you imagine the distance between you and that other person? And if you feel anything in response to that, can you imagine that bodily sensation, that tightening of your thoughts or your throat? Can you imagine it full of space? Can you imagine just including it in your attention so that you can fill it with space and surround it with space and let any of that tension dissolve into space?
0:30:35.9 Liz: And can you imagine the distance between you and the walls on either side of you, between the wall behind you and yourself, and the wall in front of you, between the floor and the ceiling? Can you imagine the three dimensional space that you are in? And can you imagine the space inside and all around the person that you have in mind? Is it possible at the same time to imagine the space inside yourself and the space all around you, extending all the way out into space itself? Is it possible to imagine yourself as a cloud of particles floating in space, broadening your attention, immersing yourself in space, all because you’re imagining it? Can you imagine the space between you and that other person? And is it possible to imagine them as a cloud of particles full of space and surrounded by space? And if your mind catches, if your body tenses, can you imagine filling that with space and surrounding it with space, whether it’s this place in your body or a thought in your mind, filling it with space, surrounding it with space, and letting it dissolve into space, floating right past you, returning your attention to the space inside yourself that you’ve imagined?
0:33:58.4 Liz: Can you imagine that space inside you, a space around you just waiting for that experience of space in your imagination to become more sensitive and asking yourself, can I imagine the space inside myself and around me more sensitively and more intimately? And is it possible at the same time to imagine the space between me and this other person who is themselves full of space, surrounded by space and a cloud of particles in that space? And can you imagine every time there’s any tension, mental or physical, returning to imagining the space inside you and around you, imagining yourself as a cloud of particles? Can you imagine immersing yourself in space, broadening your attention to include space and all the sounds and sensations in your environment? Can you imagine in an actual encounter using some of the tools you’ve learned to remind yourself of space, moving your thumb and index finger slightly toward each other in a way, engaging your peripheral vision, noticing what’s to the side of you, imagining the space behind you, listening to the sounds in that space, noticing and imagining the taste on your tongue, noticing and imagining the feel of your clothes on your skin or the air on your skin, the feel of the chair under you?
0:37:03.1 Liz: Can you imagine doing this in real life effortlessly? Just one thing, imagining space, allowing the sensation, allowing the peripheral vision. And can you imagine yourself practicing this Open Focus session at least once a day, effortlessly remembering either sitting and listening to the entire thing or doing a part that you remember, engaging your imagination, your peripheral vision, listening, sensing, anything that broadens your awareness and allows you to become a part of your experience rather than separate from it. Okay, Kat, I’m gonna…
0:38:48.8 Kat: How’s that working for you though, Liz?
0:38:50.3 Liz: It’s working for me. I feel more, this is… I’m doing this, but I’m feeling more peaceful.
0:39:00.0 Kat: Me too. Me too. Yeah.
0:39:02.1 Liz: And as I think about difficult people or things that are stressing me out right now, I feel more peaceful about it without being in this situation, but how you can get all worked up about something and stay worked up.
0:39:19.6 Kat: Yeah. Totally.
0:39:20.3 Liz: I feel more peaceful. [la How about for you?
0:39:24.0 Kat: Yeah, I feel good. I feel more calm and yeah, I think even in things that I didn’t think I was, that were weighing on me.
0:39:42.9 Liz: Isn’t that interesting? Yep.
0:39:43.3 Kat: Yeah. So as I started to kind of make space, things sort of dissolved that were there, that I wasn’t even sort of acutely aware of. If this was a therapy session, I wouldn’t have been like, here’s the reasons I’m coming here. Like, they were very kind of sub textual, you know?
0:40:04.0 Liz: Yeah. That is I think a really good description of broadening and immersing your attention. So fight or flight is this narrow objective focus where that’s what I see and I’m coming in with my complaint. But I think that a lot of times, these practices, we are alone and imagining ourselves alone doing them, and that’s really valuable. But taking them on the road really is relating. Imagining how they’re gonna work in real life, in a relationship and in a performance situation such as last week, but also in relation, ’cause interacting with people is stressful. It causes anxiety for us. And anxiety is itself imagined. So if we’re returning to imagining space every time we imagine a problem or imagining what happened before happening again, it really creates this wonderful peacefulness. I really enjoyed this today.
0:41:03.7 Kat: Yeah, it was great.
0:41:04.3 Liz: Because of that.
0:41:05.5 Kat: Thanks Liz.
0:41:09.3 Liz: You’re welcome. It was really fun.
0:41:13.5 Kat: So I’m gonna take this piece into the week and I will see you next time.
0:41:18.2 Liz: You will see me next time.
0:41:20.5 Kat: Are you interested in learning how you can incorporate Open Focus into your daily life? Consider joining us for our weekly Open Focus Friday group session at 12:00 PM Pacific on Zoom. Registration details and more information on Open Focus are available on our website, www.beyondresilience.io.
[music]
0:41:45.9 Kat: Thanks for listening to Beyond Resilience, which is hosted by Liz Williams and Kat Oak, and produced by Liminal Nation. Neither Liz nor Kat are trained medical or mental health professionals. And all of the ideas, techniques, resources, and tools we explore in the podcast reflect our own personal perspectives. Special thank you to Stephen Carey for our musical ambiance and to John Hughes and Paramount pictures for the excerpted audio of the pre-eminent philosopher of late stage Capitalism, Ferris Bueller. All rights where appropriate are reserved. Until next time, stay open.0:00:00.0 Kat: In the immortal words of Ferris Bueller.
0:00:03.1 Ferris Bueller: Life moves pretty fast. You don’t stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.
0:00:10.2 Kat: But is there an art or a science to stopping and looking around once in a while?
0:00:16.3 Liz: I’m Liz.
0:00:17.4 Kat: And I’m Kat. And this is Beyond Resilience.
[music]
0:00:22.5 Kat: When Liz and I met during the COVID-19 pandemic, we discovered that we shared a passion for exploring accessible ways of experiencing and incorporating trance into our daily lives. In particular, we were interested in how different trance inducing practices might promote physical, mental, and emotional healing, enhance creativity and inspire liberation. So in the first season of Beyond Resilience, we explore Open Focus, a practice developed by Les Fehmi that helps us retrain our brains to access all the different types of attention available. Please join us as we explore Open Focus and learn about the benefits of daily practice.
0:01:05.6 Liz: Alright, here we are, Kat, again, together again.
0:01:08.7 Kat: Hi, Liz. Together again.
0:01:11.8 Liz: [laughter] That’s us.
0:01:13.9 Kat: [laughter] So we ended last week’s episode talking about connection and amplifying connection using Open Focus to amplify connection. And so this is something you can use in all kinds of interpersonal sort of interactions, not only like in your relation, like your relationship. Right. If you’re in…
0:01:42.0 Liz: Yeah. Capital R Yeah.
0:01:43.1 Kat: And you’re, if you’re in some deep shit, or [laughter], like I was mentioning, you know, I interview a lot of people and sometimes they’re muckety-mucks. Sometimes they’re really important people and so I have to like, go in and be professional and not be my weirdo self and they’ve gotta trust me, right. That like ’cause I’m interviewing them and I wanna get them to open up and talk about things and act natural. So…
0:02:18.4 Liz: Wait, did you just say act natural? [laughter]
0:02:20.5 Kat: Yeah. I want them to act natural.
0:02:23.6 Liz: That’s what we do. [laughter]
0:02:26.7 Kat: Exactly. Share yourself. Yeah. Because, you know, like I’m not necessarily an interviewer who like, is like, here’s a question, what is your answer? And then when I create the interviews, it’s just like Q&A. Right. I’m like very much like we’re having conversation and then I will find the story in there. And, so it, it’s, it can be sometimes you have people who are not as skilled and eloquent as my good friend Liz. And they’re monosyllabic and they don’t wanna share about themselves. And so like, feeling confident or feeling that kind of like easygoing like setting to kind of put them at ease. That’s something, that sometimes I can struggle with. [laughter]
0:03:26.0 Liz: Right.
0:03:30.8 Kat: So, yeah.
0:03:33.9 Liz: When someone does that, they’re just like Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. It’s like, do you kind of panic. I mean.
0:03:41.0 Kat: Well, I mean, I try and open, ask as many open-ended questions as possible, but sometimes people will not, they still will be like very… They’re… If they were filling out a web form, [chuckle] it would be a short answer, 100 character maximum field. Whereas I’m looking for the like, you know what, multi-line…
0:04:07.4 Liz: That’s right.
0:04:08.6 Kat: No maximum…
0:04:08.9 Liz: Unlimited.
0:04:09.7 Kat: Just keep it going.
0:04:10.7 Liz: That’s right.
0:04:12.2 Kat: Yeah. And it’s funny, when you interview somebody who does, is comfortable either talking about the topic or talking about themselves, they always will apologize at some point in the interview. They’ll say, “I’m so sorry, I’m talking too much, are my answers too long da da da.” And I’m like, “No, this is great.” Because often they’ll give you answers before you ask the questions, so that’s nice.
0:04:35.1 Kat: But not once has anyone who is monosyllabic said, “I’m sorry, I’m not really giving you a lot.” No, not once [laughter] They don’t know that somebody… They’re not aware enough that they’re not, you know, but people aren’t very good at being interviewed, I think. They don’t get, people don’t get interviewed like that very often, so…
0:04:56.3 Liz: No, no.
0:04:57.3 Kat: I think, if you’re like famous or a celebrity or used to speaking in public, then you’re like, and so when I interview people who are like that, who are like heads of nonprofits and are using used to like going out and selling themselves, then they, but when it’s like, I’m an alumni, I’m a psychology graduate student, like they’re [laughter] You know, so that’s Yeah.
0:05:23.2 Liz: Yeah. As they’re talking, I’m seeing space. Right. It’s like, am I taking up too much space? I’m I, there’s too much space. I don’t wanna step out into it and feel vulnerable and…
0:05:34.3 Kat: Yeah. So that’s part of it, right? In the sort of stranger sort of reducing the stranger danger, interpersonal stress. But then we have the relationship stuff, like you’re living with somebody, whether it’s a family member or your partner or a kid, and it’s like…
0:06:01.4 Liz: Or a cat or a dog.
0:06:03.5 Kat: Oh my gosh. My dog Van.
0:06:04.6 Liz: Yeah. I mean.
0:06:05.7 Kat: Up in my grill continuously.
0:06:07.8 Liz: Right? Exactly. Exactly.
0:06:10.9 Kat: It’s like, it’s 90 degrees and you have a fur coat on. I don’t understand why you are like stuck, like Velcro to me. [laughter] Aren’t you hot? ’cause you’re panting and it seems like maybe we need some space here. [laughter],
0:06:25.0 Liz: Little ventilation, [laughter] little airflow would be really good.
0:06:29.1 Kat: Yeah. So it’s…
0:06:31.2 Liz: Anything that you might react to, right? Anything that might push a button or cause you to need to intervene when you don’t want to, or push you past a reluctance to engage as a monosyllabic person on the other side of an interview. Might be, it’s, we all bring this, 360 degree experience to the interaction. And yeah. So what about in an intimate relationship? Let’s call them an intimate relationship because living together is intimate, whether it’s a roommate, or a partner, or whatever. Kat what about that? What about when that space gets cluttered or difficult, or is it just loving and flowing?
0:07:19.3 Kat: Yeah. Or like the, you know, we talked about in the last episode, the art of knowing when not to say anything.
0:07:27.4 Liz: Yes, we did. Silence.
0:07:28.5 Kat: So giving yourself, like, giving yourself the space to take a beat to go, you know what? I mean, I am, I, for year I was always, I’m just like, you know, yeah. I can skewer you. I can be sassy. You wanna come at me? All right. Here, I’ll just dress you down. And like, my partner now was like, you can have like just the most like, scathing tongue, and I’m like, really. I just feel like I’m speaking the truth.
0:07:56.4 Liz: Me? Yeah.
0:07:57.0 Kat: [laughter] You know?
0:07:58.3 Liz: Right. Exactly.
0:08:01.2 Kat: And they’re like, no, it’s, it can be devastating. And it actually made me go, okay, I gotta take a step back because I’m not trying to be devastating. I’m not trying to damage the relationship. I’m trying to communicate something here. And obviously the way I’m doing it isn’t being received well. So then it’s like, do you have to say everything? Is that space is there, should we leave space, for the sound of silence right now.
0:08:29.6 Liz: That’s right. The silence is golden thing. I think that Al-Anon has some really a couple of good acronyms for this, which is, you know, wait, why am I still talk? Why am I talking, why am I talking. Why am I, why am I talking? And then waste for when you can’t answer that question yet. You’re still talking. Keep talking. Why am I still talking? And so every once in a while, this, the more I play with those acronyms, the more I’m like, why am I talking?
0:08:57.7 Kat: Yeah.
0:08:58.7 Liz: What would happen if I stopped talking and allowed space for the other person? Which I, you know, kind of is the art of interviewing too, right? The pause. How do you pause and let someone have airtime as they say, airtime in other word for space airspace. Space time, space time continuum. Okay. No, narrowing back into our topic.
0:09:20.0 Kat: Yeah. And I think…
0:09:21.8 Liz: And out of the space continuum.
0:09:23.9 Kat: [laughter] That is our topic. I thought Liz [laughter] everything under the sun.
0:09:32.2 Liz: That’s right.
0:09:33.3 Kat: So yeah. So I think that like that, being in moments of strife in an intimate relationship or stress in some type of a professional kind of atmosphere. I can think about, like the years I did customer service and really having to learn how to just like check myself, right? Because somebody’s just being out of pocket and they are just going hard and they’re ridiculous. And you could very easily just like set them straight, but then you’ve lost this customer and it’s like, okay, what is really going on here? What’s the real narrative here? Because it’s not actually what you’re talking about. Right. And I think that’s actually really true in intimate relationships as well. So having, you know, but then I look at it and go, like, “If I’m in the mix right and somebody’s coming at me, I’m not gonna be like, oh, imagine this.” I’m not gonna be able to do that. Right. So [laughter] like, I would love to be able to, but how can I sort of bring it, and I know we’ve talked about that. Like these sessions are kind of the blueprint to practice that the more you do it, the more you could just kind of like slip in and out, you can touch in versus doing like, yeah.
0:11:09.0 Liz: Right. You can’t say, excuse me, [laughter], I need 20 minutes can I just have 20 minutes? I just need, yeah. The more you practice this, the more available it becomes. And silence is a kind of space, right? Silence is just another word for it’s hearing space, essentially. It’s sound space, it’s the space between notes is what makes music, otherwise it’s noise. And that’s true in conversations too. It’s the silence and the thoughtful silence. So silence has its uses in conversations, especially heated ones where there’s judgment and blame or hurt or, feeling misunderstood. There’s some obstruction, imagined obstruction often or actual obstruction. But so many of them aren’t. So many of them are where our mind goes and the things we add to the conversation and bring from our own personal experience, to that conversation. So if we can remember that there are certain ways of thinking about space, silence is one of them.
0:12:17.1 Liz: Periodicity is one of them. So the space between events, the time that elapses between events, that’s useful for a train of thought that won’t stop even a train of thought, a thought comes into being and it goes out of being, and then there’s a tiny space between the next thought. Even if it’s a repetitive thought, it’s not constant. Even the brain needs to inhale, needs to pause to restart. So looking for, and if you can’t find it, imagining that silence, that space between, the space within you can always add space in your imagination. So in the space between people, the way to think about that in language or the way to language it is, distance. So, if you can’t, if the space between you is kind of too threatening because it’s like, “Oh, space doesn’t have boundaries.
0:13:21.2 Liz: Oh, oh, oh, that’s too much.” You can think about the distance between you. And as soon as you imagine the distance between you, you realize that you can bring Open Focus to relationships at any distance. So we’re in different states, Kat. So, I can imagine the distance between where I’m sitting in the image of you on the screen, that’s one way to do it. But I can also imagine the distance, the actual distance between us, which I can only imagine right? [laughter] I have to use my imagination for that. And that’s a way to add space to my experience. So when you’re in the moment and someone is coming at you, pausing, allowing silence, and if challenge saying, I’m thinking, or I just need a minute, asking someone to repeat something, paraphrasing something back to them, slowing down the tempo to something that is more manageable and less activating can be helpful.
0:14:26.3 Liz: And all the tools of active listening. You mentioned using Open Focus… Sorry, open-ended questions in an interview. That’s a way of doing that. It allows people to think, they have to think to respond to an open ended question more than they do to a closed. You know, if it’s a yes or no question, that’s not hard. Yes. No. Yes. But if it’s, what do you think about this? How do you feel about that? What do you do next? How does that happen? That’s all much more expansive, which is another word for space. So allowing time, allowing silence, imagining the distance between you and someone else gives you a way either in the moment or as a practice, which we’ll do in a moment. That’s a way to add space to your experience of them. So even if you’re interviewing someone, if you just say, can I, you don’t have to construct it, right? You just say, “can I imagine this space between me and this person?” Boom. Your brain shifts in that moment, your brain shifts. So Open Focus is not effortful. It doesn’t take 20 minutes. So you practice it so that you get less and less effortful about it. You understand that it is less, the less effort, the better, the more imagination the better.
0:15:49.4 Kat: ‘Cause I remember you telling me, you know, forever ago about how Les Fehmi would like check he had some kind of an alarm or something like that. And I was like, that seems like a lot of work. And you were like, no. He was just like, am I still doing this? And if so, like how am I paying attention? That’s what the check was. Not like I got, I’m out of Open Focus, I gotta get back in. [laughter] I gotta work harder at not working hard, you know?
0:16:15.8 Liz: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Put a lot of effort into effortlessness.
0:16:21.7 Kat: Exactly. So I think like even, you know, and it is good time, a good time to, like, if you are in a very heated situation to say, “Hey, we need to stop and take a moment, and then this is a, this could be a very effective tool to kind of get to reset yourself so that that space that you’ve made, you said, hey, I need 20 minutes, or Hey, let’s talk about this tomorrow.”
0:16:50.9 Liz: Exactly.
0:16:51.0 Kat: You’re not sitting and ruminating. Right. You are like, yeah, you’re doing something kind of like to kind of switch the, your perspective on the situation a little bit.
0:17:03.1 Liz: Right. Always helpful it assuming you come back. The other thing that this is useful for is you mentioned, you alluded to work situations where you have a difficult coworker, a boss that is in your way, that all of that kind of stuff, that you get a new boss that’s doing things differently and you don’t feel seen or heard at work. And you are in a one down position to someone in the hierarchy which is itself stressful. So without changing anything except for the way you imagine. The fact that you are imagining the distance between you and thereby adding space, it frees up your brain to think new thoughts without any of the, rumination and analysis we tend to do. Well I have this and he did this and that. You don’t need to psychoanalyze people in your life.
0:17:56.2 Liz: In fact, it’s a complete waste of time. You just need to add space. And then your brain, which is this, the whole default mode network gets a lot of attention right now. ‘Cause it’s doing the work. It’s doing the work. All of the things that we wanna do and rumination and all, all the analytical stuff we’re doing, we’re performing gets the credit. But it’s the default mode network that’s doing the work. It’s putting all the things together and coming up with new ideas thrown out there and, throwing it out there for us to try. And the less effort you put in, the more that can happen because you’re not demanding that the brain uses resources to be in fight or flight.
0:18:45.0 Liz: So that’s the value of space. It makes your brain work better to come up with new ideas, new concepts about what’s actually happening. So just imagining distance between you and a troublesome person, someone you’re full of judgment and blame for is incredibly helpful. You don’t have to do it. You don’t have to argue with yourself about the blame or you don’t have to do anything. All you do is add space to what is, and that is the Open Focus practice. It’s effortless. Just space, distance between.
0:19:22.9 Kat: It’s funny ’cause my partner has this nemesis. There’s this makerspace where we go, and there’s somebody there that just drives him up the wall. And the other day he says I would rather die.
0:19:40.3 Liz: Oh my God.
0:19:41.4 Kat: Than like, interact with this person. If this person was like, the only way home is to get in a car with me, I would rather die than do that.
0:19:51.3 Liz: Oh my God. That’s traumatic.
0:19:52.4 Kat: And I said that seems a little extreme. I feel like maybe there’s something in there for you to think about. And they got all… What are you trying to doctor Phil me?
0:20:06.3 Liz: Yeah. That’s a good one.
0:20:09.3 Kat: And I said, well, and he was like, that’s so unlike you. They’re like, you’re just… That’s not you just… You don’t do that. And I was like, it just seemed really off base. If I had such an extreme reaction to somebody that like, there’s that common thing of what really drives you crazy about somebody is often something that drives you crazy about yourself. And you’re seeing that mirrored back at you and you’re like. So I said, I would just be thinking about that, what is that? What drives me so crazy? And so the next day they said, oh, well it’s just they’re so self satisfied and they know everything and they’re always trying to explain everything to me and they’re going off on this whole spiel. And then they stop, and I was like, yeah, that sounds really annoying. They’re like, well, yeah, it is really annoying. And I was like, yeah, it’s really annoying. For me, I hope you can understand, for me as a woman.
[laughter]
0:21:10.7 Kat: That’s like 98% of my interactions with men. Especially in the tech industry, I spent decades having men teach me how to do my job that had less skill, had less background, had less… But they had an opinion and they were sure of it. I said, and if I responded with like… I would rather die [laughter] I wouldn’t have been able to get anywhere, so you have to… And is that good? No. Obviously that’s horrible. It’s horrible that people have to put up with that kind of thing. But then on the other side of it it’s like, what is that person doing though? I said, I got to a point where I realized this was all insecurity. That was all it was. So once I saw that the men were treating me this way ’cause they were insecure around me, then I just, it didn’t bother me anymore. I just was cute.
0:22:09.5 Liz: It didn’t have anything to do with you.
0:22:10.4 Kat: It was, yeah, exactly. It was just like, I’m making this, I don’t have to carry. This is their shit to carry. And that was part of… That’s kind of making that space to see like, oh, this isn’t about me. This is somebody else’s. They’re dealing with other things and I just happen to be the target. You know?
0:22:29.1 Liz: And if you’re taking it personally, then it hurts. It affects you.
0:22:32.1 Kat: If you’re too up close to it. So kind of, yeah, making that space to just let people be their weird, flawed selves and obviously there’s abusive situations where you need to get out of, but just the day-to-day flawed humans is like, okay, I’m just gonna let you be you, and I’m gonna make space here, so that I’m not gonna get the… There’s not gonna be as much collateral damage. [laughter]
0:23:03.6 Liz: Exactly. Yeah. And when I need to speak up, I will. And yeah. But yeah, absolutely. That’s… It’s good insight, Kat. So what else…
0:23:16.6 Kat: Did I Doctor Phil you, Liz?
0:23:19.4 Liz: No. No, because… [laughter] I don’t know. Did you? How’s that working for you?
0:23:28.7 Kat: Oh, isn’t that his famous line?
0:23:30.1 Liz: It is, yeah.
0:23:31.1 Kat: Oh my gosh. It seems to be going well so far.
0:23:37.1 Liz: Yeah. So far so good, man. So the key to all of it though, is that distance, that space. So let’s go.
0:23:43.4 Kat: Sounds good.
0:23:45.8 Liz: Give it a whirl. And this one this can be shorter than a lot of these other Open Focus sessions are, ’cause if we stay too long in this, we can start to, it’s really tricky not to get into that analysis and thinking that you need to do something. So we’re kind of gonna be in and out on this one a bit. And that’s how you practice it is just as lightly as possible, imagining the distance between you and someone else and adding space and it’s like, so… And we’re gonna be in and out of this one.
0:24:23.5 Kat: Okay. All right.
0:24:24.8 Liz: Okay. So starting as we always do, our feet flat on the floor, eyes closed, sitting upright. I like to also have my hands free ’cause we use the thumb and index fingers a lot, because they’re so directly wired into the brain, it helps us get into space and Open Focus more quickly and that is where we’ll start today. Can you imagine the space inside your thumbs and index fingers? And is it possible to, without any effort, imagine that space inside your index fingers and thumbs even more sensitively than you just did, just by imagining it, imagining that you’re having a more sensitive experience of the space inside your index fingers and thumbs, and using that felt sense of space in your thumbs and index fingers. Can you extend it to your other fingers on both hands, experiencing in your imagination space in your middle fingers, and ring fingers and little fingers? And once again, can you imagine feeling the space in all of your fingers and thumbs even more sensitively and intimately than you just did, all without effort, just making it up? And can you imagine that sense of space, filling your palms, your arms, your entire arm, all the way up to your shoulder, your neck, and your head full of space, effortlessly imagining the space in your head and neck, shoulders, arms, hands and fingers.
0:27:33.5 Liz: Can you imagine that space, that same sensitive sense of space, filling your entire torso, all the way down to your hip joints, your thighs, your knees, going all the way down your legs, that sense of space, filling your body and your limbs, your lower legs and ankles, feet and toes full of space. And is it possible to imagine the space, filling your entire body just a little more sensitively and intimately with absolutely no effort? Can you imagine this other person, whether it’s someone you’ve not met and will be interviewing, whether it’s someone you know well and love, whether it’s someone who is a work associate. You may or may not like maybe having a difficult time with or a good time with that you’d like to enhance, maybe your partner you’d like to enhance your experience and connection with them. Can you imagine the distance between you and that other person? And if you feel anything in response to that, can you imagine that bodily sensation, that tightening of your thoughts or your throat? Can you imagine it full of space? Can you imagine just including it in your attention so that you can fill it with space and surround it with space and let any of that tension dissolve into space?
0:30:35.9 Liz: And can you imagine the distance between you and the walls on either side of you, between the wall behind you and yourself, and the wall in front of you, between the floor and the ceiling? Can you imagine the three dimensional space that you are in? And can you imagine the space inside and all around the person that you have in mind? Is it possible at the same time to imagine the space inside yourself and the space all around you, extending all the way out into space itself? Is it possible to imagine yourself as a cloud of particles floating in space, broadening your attention, immersing yourself in space, all because you’re imagining it? Can you imagine the space between you and that other person? And is it possible to imagine them as a cloud of particles full of space and surrounded by space? And if your mind catches, if your body tenses, can you imagine filling that with space and surrounding it with space, whether it’s this place in your body or a thought in your mind, filling it with space, surrounding it with space, and letting it dissolve into space, floating right past you, returning your attention to the space inside yourself that you’ve imagined?
0:33:58.4 Liz: Can you imagine that space inside you, a space around you just waiting for that experience of space in your imagination to become more sensitive and asking yourself, can I imagine the space inside myself and around me more sensitively and more intimately? And is it possible at the same time to imagine the space between me and this other person who is themselves full of space, surrounded by space and a cloud of particles in that space? And can you imagine every time there’s any tension, mental or physical, returning to imagining the space inside you and around you, imagining yourself as a cloud of particles? Can you imagine immersing yourself in space, broadening your attention to include space and all the sounds and sensations in your environment? Can you imagine in an actual encounter using some of the tools you’ve learned to remind yourself of space, moving your thumb and index finger slightly toward each other in a way, engaging your peripheral vision, noticing what’s to the side of you, imagining the space behind you, listening to the sounds in that space, noticing and imagining the taste on your tongue, noticing and imagining the feel of your clothes on your skin or the air on your skin, the feel of the chair under you?
0:37:03.1 Liz: Can you imagine doing this in real life effortlessly? Just one thing, imagining space, allowing the sensation, allowing the peripheral vision. And can you imagine yourself practicing this Open Focus session at least once a day, effortlessly remembering either sitting and listening to the entire thing or doing a part that you remember, engaging your imagination, your peripheral vision, listening, sensing, anything that broadens your awareness and allows you to become a part of your experience rather than separate from it. Okay, Kat, I’m gonna…
0:38:48.8 Kat: How’s that working for you though, Liz?
0:38:50.3 Liz: It’s working for me. I feel more, this is… I’m doing this, but I’m feeling more peaceful.
0:39:00.0 Kat: Me too. Me too. Yeah.
0:39:02.1 Liz: And as I think about difficult people or things that are stressing me out right now, I feel more peaceful about it without being in this situation, but how you can get all worked up about something and stay worked up.
0:39:19.6 Kat: Yeah. Totally.
0:39:20.3 Liz: I feel more peaceful. [la How about for you?
0:39:24.0 Kat: Yeah, I feel good. I feel more calm and yeah, I think even in things that I didn’t think I was, that were weighing on me.
0:39:42.9 Liz: Isn’t that interesting? Yep.
0:39:43.3 Kat: Yeah. So as I started to kind of make space, things sort of dissolved that were there, that I wasn’t even sort of acutely aware of. If this was a therapy session, I wouldn’t have been like, here’s the reasons I’m coming here. Like, they were very kind of sub textual, you know?
0:40:04.0 Liz: Yeah. That is I think a really good description of broadening and immersing your attention. So fight or flight is this narrow objective focus where that’s what I see and I’m coming in with my complaint. But I think that a lot of times, these practices, we are alone and imagining ourselves alone doing them, and that’s really valuable. But taking them on the road really is relating. Imagining how they’re gonna work in real life, in a relationship and in a performance situation such as last week, but also in relation, ’cause interacting with people is stressful. It causes anxiety for us. And anxiety is itself imagined. So if we’re returning to imagining space every time we imagine a problem or imagining what happened before happening again, it really creates this wonderful peacefulness. I really enjoyed this today.
0:41:03.7 Kat: Yeah, it was great.
0:41:04.3 Liz: Because of that.
0:41:05.5 Kat: Thanks Liz.
0:41:09.3 Liz: You’re welcome. It was really fun.
0:41:13.5 Kat: So I’m gonna take this piece into the week and I will see you next time.
0:41:18.2 Liz: You will see me next time.
0:41:20.5 Kat: Are you interested in learning how you can incorporate Open Focus into your daily life? Consider joining us for our weekly Open Focus Friday group session at 12:00 PM Pacific on Zoom. Registration details and more information on Open Focus are available on our website, www.beyondresilience.io.
[music]
0:41:45.9 Kat: Thanks for listening to Beyond Resilience, which is hosted by Liz Williams and Kat Oak, and produced by Liminal Nation. Neither Liz nor Kat are trained medical or mental health professionals. And all of the ideas, techniques, resources, and tools we explore in the podcast reflect our own personal perspectives. Special thank you to Stephen Carey for our musical ambiance and to John Hughes and Paramount pictures for the excerpted audio of the pre-eminent philosopher of late stage Capitalism, Ferris Bueller. All rights where appropriate are reserved. Until next time, stay open.